tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22646012.post7734187906571022379..comments2023-11-04T00:19:12.362+11:00Comments on I'm ramblin' again: No, I am *not* a fan of John Piper...Justinhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04773963984084893424noreply@blogger.comBlogger24125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22646012.post-88724716622324428632007-10-30T13:39:00.000+11:002007-10-30T13:39:00.000+11:00Oh bother! Just when I wanted to be your facebook ...Oh bother! Just when I wanted to be your facebook friend because you're kind of famous, and I could be kind of famous by association :). Anyway, here I am - waiting for you to come back to blog land.Alihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01860216271350147224noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22646012.post-61349766840186962002007-09-12T01:49:00.000+10:002007-09-12T01:49:00.000+10:00Eug is a wise man!Indeed.Imagine being asked for a...<I>Eug is a wise man!</I><BR/><BR/>Indeed.<BR/><BR/>Imagine being asked for an autograph for preaching Christ? How does a godly man like that respond to a request for an autograph? It must be difficult for these men. We ought not to make it any worse -- thats my call.<BR/><BR/>Good to hear from you A or J.Justinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04773963984084893424noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22646012.post-27422977709035155772007-09-12T01:42:00.000+10:002007-09-12T01:42:00.000+10:00The only 'guru' I haven't spotted around Regent Co...The only 'guru' I haven't spotted around Regent College in my last year is Eugene Peterson (J.I. Packer, Gordon Fee and Bruce Waltke are around a bit). I have heard that he stopped dropping by the college because he felt uncomfortable when people asked him for his autograph. Eug is a wise man! But it's a bummer I haven't been able to hear him speak in person.<BR/><BR/>For work, I may have to call Dr. Packer at home today... cool ;-)Andrew + Jessicahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01153978769330911662noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22646012.post-29024322432174126232007-09-12T01:25:00.000+10:002007-09-12T01:25:00.000+10:00Ian -- Thanks. May I ask: Do I know you? Which Ia...Ian -- Thanks. May I ask: Do I know you? Which Ian are you? You can email me personally if you like:<BR/><BR/>jmoff / hotmailJustinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04773963984084893424noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22646012.post-16867180721659971142007-09-12T01:16:00.000+10:002007-09-12T01:16:00.000+10:00well said, sir!this is just one reason i started t...well said, sir!<BR/><BR/>this is just one reason i started to attend a smaller church. not because i don't want to hear what is being preached, but because i wanted a fresh perspective and to get away from any chance of becoming a "fan" and those who already were.Ianhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03020240383349071639noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22646012.post-45078679836306658222007-09-11T21:19:00.000+10:002007-09-11T21:19:00.000+10:00Justin... you asked "Isn't Paul's point here that ...Justin... you asked "Isn't Paul's point here that he personally was the person who spoke to them, and not the more spiritually remote uber-preachers whom the Corinthian church are fawning after?"<BR/>That certainly was the case for the first century Paul... download speeds were really slow on the ancient dial-up networks. However, the reality of the current download phenomenon is that the people who do impact and shape us don't necessarily have to be those who are geographically near us. Now that may not be healthy... but it is the reality.Gav Perkinshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14990425953628245056noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22646012.post-62219150634608468812007-09-11T19:29:00.000+10:002007-09-11T19:29:00.000+10:00Craigs, Mandy and Gavin (and William before you) -...Craigs, Mandy and Gavin (and William before you) -- Of course we recognize and appreciate those who profoundly impacted us. We could call them 'heroes', or 'fathers' in the Lord (1 Cor). We could describe ourselves as their 'students' as well. We may even use the word 'fan' because thats the word we simply chose in a moment.<BR/><BR/>A few thoughts on Gavs post that may be relevant to all:<BR/><BR/><I>We all have parents in the gospel... people whose ministry has impacted us in a particular and special way</I> <BR/><BR/>Isn't Paul's point here that he <B>personally</B> was the person who spoke to them, and not the more spiritually remote uber-preachers whom the Corinthian church are fawning after? This is particularly relevant in our iPod/download culture where we can fawn after an international giant (Your last observation, Gav.)<BR/><BR/><I>We don't have to all join the super-spiritually/pious "I follow Christ" party</I>. <BR/><BR/>We certainly do not have to join the 'super-spiritually/pious' branch of the party (bad cousins, huh?), but in the end, 'I follow Christ' is the only way forward, right? Click <A HREF="http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=54&chapter=4&verse=5&version=31&context=verse" REL="nofollow">Here</A> and <A HREF="http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1%20cor%203:21-23;&version=31" REL="nofollow">Here</A>. That having been said, I take your point -- that we 'rejoice in the servants God has used to shape us.'<BR/><BR/><I>The danger of course is when we forget that such people are to be regarded only as "servants of Christ" accountable to Christ alone for their ministry (1 Cor 4:1-4).</I><BR/><BR/>Yes! My question, then, is this -- Is the current language of being 'fans' of pastor-teachers (and maybe even remote uber-preachers move us dangerously down the path you speak of?<BR/><BR/>And do we do a disservice to the preachers themselves? Waiting for them to implode in an ocean of worldly popularity? (Now <B>that</B> was a mixed metaphor.)Justinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04773963984084893424noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22646012.post-27613759870623663602007-09-11T19:04:00.000+10:002007-09-11T19:04:00.000+10:00This made me smile Justin as on Sunday night at ch...<I>This made me smile Justin as on Sunday night at church I outed myself as a fan of you in drumming up support for people to come to ENGAGE!</I><BR/><BR/>You are kind, Mandy! And I didn't mean to put you in an awkward situation! I shall be praying that they come to ENGAGE.<BR/><BR/>(But, like all the preachers in my post, would prefer people to come as seekers as well as followers after Jesus, not as fans.)<BR/><BR/>I can't believe it was 20 years ago ! Praise God for Jo Harris, right?Justinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04773963984084893424noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22646012.post-9774074735721718732007-09-11T19:00:00.000+10:002007-09-11T19:00:00.000+10:00A fan - as an avid appreciator, is surely differen...<I>A fan - as an avid appreciator, is surely different to a follower.<BR/><BR/>Isn't 1 Cor about followers & not appreciators.</I><BR/><BR/>That's a good observation, Luke. Clearly the text says: 'I follow...'. But its good to ask in what sense were they 'following'. I suspect that it was more in the sense of our use of the word 'fan' -- comparing one to another and saying which you liked more, and then creating divisions over it. <BR/><BR/>But still mulling that over.Justinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04773963984084893424noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22646012.post-11330140543138693452007-09-11T18:57:00.000+10:002007-09-11T18:57:00.000+10:00Forgive my ignorance, Justin, but who is Piper?Kat...<I>Forgive my ignorance, Justin, but who is Piper?</I><BR/><BR/>Kate -- I included several links to Piper pages in my post. Click on anything yellow and bold, and it will take you to where you need to go. That'll let you know who Piper is. Hes a godly man who preaches Christ boldly (and he has lots of fans).Justinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04773963984084893424noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22646012.post-3583889759587035072007-09-11T18:14:00.000+10:002007-09-11T18:14:00.000+10:00Some reflections from 1 Corinthians 1-4 which I ha...Some reflections from 1 Corinthians 1-4 which I have been preaching on recently...<BR/>We all have parents in the gospel... people whose ministry has impacted us in a particular and special way (cf. 1 Cor 4:15). There's nothing wrong with identifying and honouring such people. We don't have to all join the super-spiritually/pious "I follow Christ" party (1 Cor 1:12). We can rejoice in the servants God has used to shape us. I suspect that people who maintain that 'I follow Christ alone' are simply unaware and un-thought-through re the ministries that have had profound spiritual impact upon them. The danger of course is when we forget that such people are to be regarded only as "servants of Christ" accountable to Christ alone for their ministry (1 Cor 4:1-4). <BR/>Another 21st century issue is that those who impact us may live and minister on a different continent in a very different context. Appropriating what we learn into our own context can clearly be fraught with danger.Gav Perkinshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14990425953628245056noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22646012.post-43940964273513274082007-09-11T18:11:00.000+10:002007-09-11T18:11:00.000+10:00This made me smile Justin as on Sunday night at ch...This made me smile Justin as on Sunday night at church I outed myself as a fan of you in drumming up support for people to come to ENGAGE!<BR/><BR/>Why am I a fan? Because you, amongst others like the wonderful Jo, were influential in me becoming a Christian 20 years ago. <BR/><BR/>I think you rightly point out the danger of blindly following those we admire or who have had an influence upon us, yet I suspect that there is a place for 'fans'. I reckon that Paul had fans who joined in imitaing him as he imitated Christ.Mandyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07386483160078580069noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22646012.post-69774575938253612572007-09-11T18:06:00.000+10:002007-09-11T18:06:00.000+10:00I don't care for U2.I don't care for U2.Lachlan Paynehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18396520570919387124noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22646012.post-19751922727158358562007-09-11T17:58:00.000+10:002007-09-11T17:58:00.000+10:00A fan - as an avid appreciator, is surely differen...A fan - as an avid appreciator, is surely different to a follower.<BR/><BR/>Isn't 1 Cor about followers & not appreciators.<BR/><BR/>I am a big fan of U2 (like everyone else in the bland Christian world!), but I don't follow them. I don't agree with all their ideology, if they told me to jump I wouldn't jump (unless it was in time with the whoo-oohs in Elevation).Lukehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05205420365257697767noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22646012.post-81165781445545772182007-09-11T16:23:00.000+10:002007-09-11T16:23:00.000+10:00Forgive my ignorance, Justin, but who is Piper?Forgive my ignorance, Justin, but who is Piper?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22646012.post-55824077778357774322007-09-11T16:19:00.000+10:002007-09-11T16:19:00.000+10:00I'm a total fan of both Piper and Driscoll, and a ...I'm a total fan of both Piper and Driscoll, and a whole heap of other cool preachers, past and present. <BR/><BR/>I reckon it's ok to have heroes...Craig Schwarzehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11156017639962303656noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22646012.post-20024508194539060182007-09-11T14:28:00.000+10:002007-09-11T14:28:00.000+10:00Facebook fan groups are indeed a sign of silliness...Facebook fan groups are indeed a sign of silliness and immaturity.<BR/><BR/>Join mine <A HREF=HTTP://WWW.FACEBOOK.COM/GROUP.PHP?GID=5577073981 HREF="" REL="nofollow">here</A>.Gordon Chenghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07588151868151940982noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22646012.post-79023153125276865052007-09-11T12:41:00.000+10:002007-09-11T12:41:00.000+10:00Justin -- you have managed to express very clearly...Justin -- you have managed to express very clearly exactly what I have been thinking about recently, in regards to the growing popularity of Mark Driscoll around these parts.<BR/><BR/>Your No. 1 fan,<BR/><BR/>Lunch.<BR/><BR/>[Just kidding.]Lachlan Paynehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18396520570919387124noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22646012.post-5687766672451948832007-09-11T12:02:00.000+10:002007-09-11T12:02:00.000+10:00If you were a true fan you would have described h...If you were a true fan you would have described him as <I>modestly bold</I> :)Christopherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02031551405442888131noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22646012.post-85987911180159348822007-09-11T10:48:00.000+10:002007-09-11T10:48:00.000+10:00William -- Now that is a great question and a thou...William -- Now that is a great question and a thoughtful challenge.<BR/><BR/>It is worth saying that immature fan clubs that divide are as old as the Corinthian Church.<BR/><BR/>But, that having been said, does anyone have an answer or a reflection?<BR/><BR/>Anyone want to talk about how they express their thankfulness?<BR/><BR/>I have some thoughts, but am happy to let others interact.Justinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04773963984084893424noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22646012.post-44280563694862942442007-09-11T10:38:00.000+10:002007-09-11T10:38:00.000+10:00How did people express their admiration before the...How did people express their admiration before the age of celebrity?<BR/><BR/>In my mind, the concept of a <I>fan</I> is very much tied to the international obsession with sports: the sort of irrational loyalty to a certain team or player.<BR/><BR/>Can I call myself a <I>student</I> of those I admire? Is there a better term to express the a sort of humble gratitude, admiration, and respect (as distinct from veneration or celebrity worship) that is due to someone who is older and often wiser than I am?<BR/><BR/>Let me know if you can come up with anything.william randolph braffordhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13890306082299165436noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22646012.post-52631144922140093022007-09-11T10:00:00.000+10:002007-09-11T10:00:00.000+10:00Thanks Justin. great post.Thanks Justin. great post.SamRhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17712877601195896353noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22646012.post-38296120640618126462007-09-11T08:39:00.000+10:002007-09-11T08:39:00.000+10:00Chris -- actually, the reason I could be tempted t...Chris -- actually, the reason I could be <I>tempted</I> to be a fan is precisely because he is bold. However, I have resisted, and I am not a fan.Justinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04773963984084893424noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22646012.post-10421809403145390802007-09-11T08:09:00.000+10:002007-09-11T08:09:00.000+10:00I agree. I have said elsewhere that I think CS Lew...I agree. I have said elsewhere that I think CS Lewis would be horrified by the way he is adored and used. The same goes for Piper. However, I do wish Piper was as semantic/nuanced as you in the way that he chooses his words/concepts i.e. Christian hedonist.Christopherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02031551405442888131noreply@blogger.com